Ruckus Troubleshooting Help - Motor/ESC???

Hey all. I'm new to the forum but have been lurking for a while and gained a ton of knowledge. Thanks to all for the great information.

I originally bought the 1:10 Brushless Ruckus for my son but had so much fun we bought a used Slash for him so we can both run the cars. Total blast and great fun with my boy. As I've found, they break all the time but are pretty easy to get back on the road. At the moment, I'm totally unsure what to do and need advice. The Ruckus is a stock brushless setup. I added a 2S Lipo which is pretty sweet. Truck has always run flawless despite breaking drivelines and A arms. That has been frustrating. So last time they broke, I bought some MIP drivelines and installed them. They seemed to bind up and when I went to run the truck with the new drivelines and the motor/ESC heated up really hot. Not sure what temp but too hot to touch.

This is my problem that I can't figure out. I took the metal drivelines off and put back on the stock ECX plastic ones thinking it would fix it. It didn't. Something must have happened before the metal driveline project coincidentally and now the truck runs but motor/esc heats up super fast and acts like the breaks are on while throttle is on. I ran back through the ESC calibration and set up and confirmed that I only have 10% Drag Brake Force (#3 setting). I also have the stock setting for Max Brake Force at 75% (also #3 setting). Since both of these settings are the same as they always have been with the same battery/motor/esc combo, I'm unsure. I give it throttle and it definitely goes but as soon as I let off the throttle, it totally brakes hard. I'm certain the heat is way hotter than it has ever been. Oh and I also adjusted the pinion gear a long time ago when I upgraded the battery to 2s lipo so that isn't it either.

If I lift the truck off the ground, give it throttle and let off, tires spin but it brakes hard. However, if I spin the back wheels by hand they totally spin freely meaning the transmission is smooth. So I think it is something in the motor or ESC. That's where I'm at. I don't want to buy new parts hoping it will fix it so wondering if this description helps with advice for next steps. Just not sure how to diagnose if either the motor or ESC is going south.

Thanks a ton guys.
Erik

First thing is first, it isn't a problem with the motor or the esc.

Something between the wheels and the motor is the issue.

Check each wheel, make sure it spins easily/freely. That will check the individual axle.

If one wheel spins one way, the other should spin the other way, it should not stop or studder, this kind of checks the differential. Both sides should feel smooth.

This next part will require you to take apart the covers that contain the differential so you can see the gears on the other side of the spur going to the rear differential. First inspect the 3 gears and make sure nothing is stuck between causing the gears to stop working. The next is to remove a gear, so that it is free from the spur/slipper and see if it spins freely when you force both wheels to move forward or reverse, or does it require force to move the truck. Put the gear back in, does it feel the same or worse when doing the same?

Also look at the spur and pinion gears, make sure they aren't binding up.


Post back your findings.


Also I noticed when I put the pin screw into the axle where is meets the differential, if you screw them all the way down, the pin sticks out a few mm and hits the screw that mounts the turn buckles to the body...you may have to back them out so they don't hit and use blue lock tight so they don't come out (Will have to allow to dry).

sc302 said:

First thing is first, it isn't a problem with the motor or the ESC.

Something between the wheels and the motor is the issue.

Check each wheel, make sure it spins easily/freely. That will check the individual axle.

If one wheel spins one way, the other should spin the other way, it should not stop or studder, this kind of checks the differential. Both sides should feel smooth.

This next part will require you to take apart the covers that contain the differential so you can see the gears on the other side of the spur going to the rear differential. First inspect the 3 gears and make sure nothing is stuck between causing the gears to stop working. The next is to remove a gear, so that it is free from the spur/slipper and see if it spins freely when you force both wheels to move forward or reverse, or does it require force to move the truck. Put the gear back in, does it feel the same or worse when doing the same?

Also look at the spur and pinion gears, make sure they aren't binding up.


Post back your findings.


Also I noticed when I put the pin screw into the axle where is meets the differential, if you screw them all the way down, the pin sticks out a few mm and hits the screw that mounts the turn buckles to the body...you may have to back them out so they don't hit and use blue lock tight so they don't come out (Will have to allow to dry).

Click to expand...

OK, update. Thanks again sc302 for your quick reply and help. I think normally the bearings would have been the problem. In this case the wheels free spun without any studder. Very smooth. I did open it all up and cleaned/greased all the bearings and gears so I probably needed to do that anyway. I put it back together and the motor still seemed to be the origination of the stiffness. I saw a video on YouTube about rebuilding a brushless motor so I figured out how to disassemble it. I didn't think you could open them up but pretty cool seeing how the coils and magnets work. I figured that it might be the motor bearings but was not. There was what I thought was lint but may have been small copper wire (thick as a hair) that was floating around in there and wrapped around the shaft near the magnets. I think something may have gotten inside the vent holes and either threw off the tolerances or melted to the inside because the magnets are making contact with the sides of the coil and creating some slight friction and vibration. I haven't taken our other RC car's motor off but I assume that it should spin super smooth and not feel like it is making any contact between the magnets and coil. I hooked up the battery and you can hear it is not smooth. Also stops immediately after letting off the throttle. I'm hoping it is just the 3300KV motor and not the ESC too but I think it may be time for a new motor.

If anyone has a reasonably priced motor that is waterproof, I would greatly appreciate the recommendation. Also, if what I'm saying above sounds incorrect, please let me know.

THANKS!

Erik

How about this 3100KV ebay special? Or the 3500KV version? I haven't run these myself but there's a lot of love for goolrc motors on amazon, and for the price you can surely take the gamble! On 2s they should run cool enough.

I have a smaller one on its way from china right now.

With the motor disconnected, push the car forward.

Does it go without much force or does it feel stuck? If stuck, it isn't the motor. If not stuck, it is the motor.

I would go castle if I were to buy a motor. I would stay away from the Chinese stuff, once and done. Brushless generally is not waterproof.

sc302 said:

With the motor disconnected, push the car forward.

Does it go without much force or does it feel stuck? If stuck, it isn't the motor. If not stuck, it is the motor.

I would go castle if I were to buy a motor. I would stay away from the Chinese stuff, once and done. Brushless generally is not waterproof.

Click to expand...

All sensor less brushless motors are "waterproof" make sure to use wd40 and oil the bearings.
I've been running one of these motors in my ruckus since last spring and it runs awesome and has lasted longer than my 3800kv castle motor did. Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/251974058645

I pulled the pinion and the truck runs smooth. Pulled the motor and the shaft has friction. I saw a video of how to open up the brushless motor so I did that to my stock Tazer 3300kv. It looks like something got into it or that some of the loose copper wires wrapped around the magnets and melted to the coils. I did take the transmission apart for the first time and cleaned/greased the bearings and gears. Pretty sure it is a bad motor. I'll check out the ebay and Amazon suggestion above. The ebay suggestion is 3100kv instead of the existing 3300kv motor so I still need to research the difference between higher and lower kv motors and also high torque motors since there seems like a ton of options in the market.

Also, slick2500, the ebay one linked above has a shaft that is 5mm and my tazer is 1/8" (3.175mm) so don't think it will fit unless they are measuring the flat side verses the round sides. Do you have your BL Motors in a 2wd Ruckus 1:10? Thanks all!

Erik

EMO870 said:

I pulled the pinion and the truck runs smooth. Pulled the motor and the shaft has friction. I saw a video of how to open up the brushless motor so I did that to my stock Tazer 3300kv. It looks like something got into it or that some of the loose copper wires wrapped around the magnets and melted to the coils. I did take the transmission apart for the first time and cleaned/greased the bearings and gears. Pretty sure it is a bad motor. I'll check out the ebay and Amazon suggestion above. The ebay suggestion is 3100kv instead of the existing 3300kv motor so I still need to research the difference between higher and lower kv motors and also high torque motors since there seems like a ton of options in the market.

Also, slick2500, the ebay one linked above has a shaft that is 5mm and my tazer is 1/8" (3.175mm) so don't think it will fit unless they are measuring the flat side verses the round sides. Do you have your BL Motors in a 2wd Ruckus 1:10? Thanks all!

Erik

Click to expand...

I forgot that has a 5mm shaft on it, I just bought a 48p 5mm Robinson Racing Hardened steel pinion. It was about $9 off eBay.
Yes I run that in my 1/10 Ruckus with Hot Racing 85t spur and 22t pinion on 3s, setup runs pretty good and cool I just keep shredding the yolks on my stub axles.

sc302 said:

With the motor disconnected, push the car forward.

Does it go without much force or does it feel stuck? If stuck, it isn't the motor. If not stuck, it is the motor.

I would go castle if I were to buy a motor. I would stay away from the Chinese stuff, once and done. Brushless generally is not waterproof.

Click to expand...

The original 3300kv motor was really fast on 2s lipo. I just bash with my kids. What would you suggest, 3100kv or 3650kv? I have seen several good reports on GoolRC and the price is really good. I'm also wondering if I should replace the ESC at the same time but I really don't know how to tell if it is good or gone bad.

Thanks a ton. I totally appreciate it.

Erik

well if you are replacing the esc, I ended up going with this combo on my son's 2wd ruckus. I bought it from my lhs.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/XTM-X-Serie...SC-Brushless-3300kv-Motor-Combo-/381779269105

a little more you could go with this:
https://www.amazon.com/Castle-Creations-Sidewinder-System-1410-3800kV/dp/B00FRH7XWO

EMO870 said:

The original 3300kv motor was really fast on 2s LiPo. I just bash with my kids. What would you suggest, 3100kv or 3650kv? I have seen several good reports on GoolRC and the price is really good. I'm also wondering if I should replace the ESC at the same time but I really don't know how to tell if it is good or gone bad.

Click to expand...

If you are unsure about the ESC, I would get this power system. It will not be much faster than the stock 3300KV setup, and if it is, you just dial down the end point on the TX. Just don't put "waterproof" too much to the test I'd say. Few cheap waterproof parts survive wading through a pond, and that includes the stock systems that come on ECX.

I think the "3650KV" you are referring to does not exist, 3650 is the label GoolRC uses to describe a size 540 can (36mm diameter) of length 50mm. The length is mostly what will determine the torque of the motor. A 3660 can might be so torquey it eats up the driveshafts, the spur gear, the internal gears, you name it lol.

xlDooM said:

If you are unsure about the ESC, I would get this power system. It will not be much faster than the stock 3300KV setup, and if it is, you just dial down the end point on the TX. Just don't put "waterproof" too much to the test I'd say. Few cheap waterproof parts survive wading through a pond, and that includes the stock systems that come on ECX.

I think the "3650KV" you are referring to does not exist, 3650 is the label GoolRC uses to describe a size 540 can (36mm diameter) of length 50mm. The length is mostly what will determine the torque of the motor. A 3660 can might be so torquey it eats up the driveshafts, the spur gear, the internal gears, you name it lol.

Click to expand...

My 3665 can eats stub axles, no problems with the spur and trans gears.

my stock 40 a esc smoked and after months of trying to get the recall i just ordered a gool rc 3500kv with 60a esc but im concerned about 2 things 1 that the 5.8v bec at 3 amps will fry my stock servo and 2 ive read that the 1800mah 2s lipo that came with my truck wont power the new 60 amp ecx esc so if it wont power that im not sure it would power brushless 60a either also there is no c rating with the gool rc esc and i read using a low c rated battery can damage the esc
so my questions are can my servo handle that or will i need a new servo and what is the lowest voltage and c rating i should use?

1) The servo should handle 5.8V just fine. It's not such a great servo anyway though
2) The 1800 lipo should work fine with the goolrc ESC. In fact it should also work fine with the ECX ESC, I have no idea why it gave problems in that other person's thread.
3) Low C battery does not damage the ESC. I suppose in theory it could increase ESC temps as the ESC capacitors will charge and discharge more, but the dinky fan on the goolrc ESC is a much bigger risk for temps that ESC has some headroom for the 3500KV motor too (on 2S at least).

thanks for the reply i guess ill hook it up and see how it goes from there.
the fan on the gool rc can be removed im pretty sure do you think taking it off will keep it cooler?

No, I think the fan is required, but the fans are 5V rated (standard computer main board fan probably) and I fear they will burn out on the 6V that the ESC delivers... Kind of a manufacturing defect, but you can replace the fan when it fails. My fan also doesn't run smoothly or quietly, it buzzes and rattles so the bearings may be already toast.

so i can just replace it with a cheap computer fan if it does burn up?
is there a way i could bypass the fan? im pretty sure over heating shouldnt be a problem from what ive found the new motor and esc are more than sufficient for my use.

i should have asked in the last post but do they make 6v fans that are less likely to overheat/burnout?

I'm not sure if the little 6V fans are really 6V or just 5V with a different sticker. Doesn't matter, a better quality fan will survive the extra volt.

If you run 2S you might get away without the fan. I have the 3100KV motor with the 45A ESC and it runs very cool with the fan. When it breaks I will see what gives. If it needs a fan, I'll put a proper one on it with a metal shroud. Maybe a 12V fan that will run at half rpm, it should still be sufficient.